Today, I’m speaking with Marina Mogilko, from LinguaTrip. She is the first creator ever to receive a direct investment. Marina received an upfront payment of a million and a half dollars in an exchange for 5% of her revenue over the next 30 years.

We talk about what her partnership with her investors actually looks like. What’s in the deal, and what isn’t in the deal. Marina also shares details about her journey to having three YouTube channels with over 7 million subscribers, and how she’s looking at business in 2022 and beyond.

Marina and I go way back. We’ve known each other for nearly six years. Marina is a very talented creator. This is a wonderful conversation, and I’m so glad that Marina was able to take part.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How Marina balances managing three successful YouTube channels
• Details behind the negotiations for Marina’s seven figure deal
• How to increase your YouTube growth and revenue
• What the future looks like for direct investment in creators
  
  

Links & Resources

• Mone On Da Beat episode
• Rebecca Zung episode
• 500 Global
• Follow Pico on Twitter
• Pico
• Follow Chikodi on Twitter

Marina Mogilko’s Links

• Follow Marina on Twitter
• LinguaTrip
• Check out Marina’s YouTube channel
• Silicon Valley Girl on YouTube
• Marina’s Russian YouTube channel
• LinguaTrip on TikTok
• Marina’s Russian TikTok
• Marina’s Facebook page
• Marina’s Instagram
• LinguaTrip on Instagram
• Marina’s blog

Transcript

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00:00:00 Marina:

As a creator, it’s super lonely. You just chat to your camera all the time. You have a team, but they’re remote. So, it’s not like you don’t have co-founders, but having investors it’s a completely different dynamic. You’re like, “Oh, I have people who are actually interested in me succeeding.”

So, it’s a lot about mindset with this deal.

00:00:28 Chikodi:

Hello everyone. My name is Chikodi Chima. Thank you, again, for joining us on another edition of the Creator Business Show.

Today, we’re speaking with Marina Mogilko. She is the first creator ever to receive a direct investment. Sam Lessin, from Slow Ventures, and Sriram Krishnan, who’s at Andreessen Horowitz, gave her an upfront payment of a million and a half dollars in an exchange for 5% of her revenue over the next 30 years as a creator.

We’re going to talk about what that revenue actually looks like. What is in the deal. What isn’t in the deal. Her journey to having three YouTube channels with over 7 million subscribers across those three channels, and how she’s looking at business in 2022 and beyond.

This is a really wonderful conversation, and I’m so glad that Marina was able to participate. I’m glad that you’re here to participate, as well.

So, let’s dive into today’s edition of the Creator Business Show.

Marina and I go way back. We’ve known each other for five or six years. Marina is a very talented creator. She’s also the first creator to be given a direct creator investment from Sam Lessin and Slow Ventures.

So we’re going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about how you got to this point.

Welcome to the show.

00:02:13 Marina:

Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me. I’m super excited. Yeah, we’ve known each other since 2015, so it’s seven years this year.

00:02:20 Chikodi:

Wow. Wow. That’s amazing.

So, diving right in, when we met you and your husband were working on LinguaTrip. I imagine you’re still working on LinguaTrip. What was LinguaTrip then? What is it now? And how has that contributed to where you are today?

00:02:41 Marina:

LinguaTrip has evolved. With COVID, we had to pivot from being purely a booking platform for travel experiences. We started producing our own courses with different YouTube bloggers and teachers that we partnered with.

Now, these courses are our main source of revenue, but we’re hoping that countries start opening up, and there are some countries that you can visit right now to learn a language.

So, we’re still positive about the educational travel part of the business. But in the meantime, we’re working on our own educational platform for language learners. We want to make it adaptive. We want to make content that’s easy to consume.

So, basically what I’m doing on YouTube, we want to give it more structure, we’re working on methodology. It’s still, I think, maybe a 50 person team. I am less involved in the product these days. My husband has taken over. He’s the CEO, and he’s running the operations. But, I am still involved in the product and some marketing.

00:03:48 Chikodi:

Okay. And so for those who are unaffiliated LinguaTrip is, was a platform to help language learners learn a language by traveling to the country where the languages spoken.

00:04:00 Marina:

Yep. Exactly.

00:04:02 Chikodi:

I’m still a 50 person team. That’s quite, quite remarkable.

00:04:05 Marina:

Yeah. Yeah. I’m glad we’re able to retain

00:04:08 Chikodi:

Yeah. Yeah. And so you came to the states, was that your first time living in the U S or had you lived here before 27? 2015?

00:04:19 Marina:

I visited before and it, it has always been my dream to at least live here for a while. And, I started my university applications at the same time. So I was like, what would be the best way to move? And then we got accepted to 500. So the problem was solved. So we came in 2015 on a tourist visa.

Then we got our oh one visas and came back in 2016 and then I applied for a green card. So now we’re, we’re here.

00:04:45 Chikodi:

Okay. And so you have three YouTube. linguaMarina itself has almost 6 million subscribers.

00:04:54 Marina:

Yeah. 5.1, something like that. It’s growing like crazy. It’s growing at 300,000 new followers every month. I’ve never seen that growth before. I know it’s only temporary. you’re so dependent on the algorithm. And for some reason it likes me for the past. It has been liking me for the past few months, especially, Yeah It’s. amazing

00:05:17 Chikodi:

It’s flabbergasting. I don’t even know what to say. 300,000 new subscribers a month and that’s all organic

00:05:25 Marina:

Yeah, we don’t do any YouTube is this platform where you don’t need to advertise because the algorithm works so well that if you’re producing interesting content, it picks up at a certain pace and yeah, for the past few months, the pace has been crazy.

00:05:42 Chikodi:

And I see you’ve been producing a YouTube shorts as well. I know the algorithm

00:05:47 Marina:

Those have been driving a lot of growth. we went from, I think last year in January, we had 5 million views a month. This time we have 47 million views a month, and most of the views come from shorts.

00:06:00 Chikodi:

Wow. Okay. what does that actually translate into in terms of revenue? And that’s just on the

00:06:07 Marina:

It Translates to nothing. the revenue has been pretty stable. So I get that there is this YouTube shorts fund, $100M fund. And they distribute a couple of million every month among people who are producing shorts. And I got $100 from them last month.

So it’s Good, but still it doesn’t compare to, the overall revenue. So the overall revenue hasn’t been really affected. but I think this is something, this is an investment because shorts are driving traffic, they’re driving recognition, and they’re driving subscribers to hopefully once monetization’s in place, we will see some impact on the revenue, but for now I’m just happy for, because of all the attention that our videos are getting.

00:06:58 Chikodi:

And then you have the Silicon valley girl that is that your Russian general.

00:07:02 Marina:

No, that’s, that’s an English channel. Marina Mogilko coach is my first and last name is my Russian channel.

00:07:07 Chikodi:

Okay. So you have three channels, two kids and a life that’s, that’s quite remarkable as the parent of one child.

00:07:18 Marina:

Oh, wow. Congratulations. How old is he or she?

00:07:21 Chikodi:

He’s going to be five in June, so it’s just about four and a half, four and a half on Saturday.

00:07:28 Marina:

Wow. And that, yeah, that’s what this is. Like, you probably feel that it’s getting easier in terms of like physical, physical energy involvement, because when you have a two-year-old you just run around and our seventh month old started crawling, so I have to be all over the place.

00:07:47 Chikodi:

All right. So that’s yeah, I mean, so how do you, how do you balance. Three channels and all of these responsibilities, like how do you, how do you divide your brain in such a way because one channel is in Russian and two channels are in English, right?

00:08:01 Marina:

Yeah, for a lot of topics. I just make the same video just twice one in Russian, one in English.

And they’re super different. the audience is, they intersect in some way, I would say 10% of all the audiencesis the same everywhere, true core fans who want to watch every piece of content I produce.

But. the audiences are really different, so Marina Mogilko is mostly vlogs I’m just talking about my life. this is one of my favorite challenges, because people love me for who I am, no matter what I talk about, I can just film a day in life they will be watching and they’ll be grateful, which is amazing.

LinguaMarina is this educational channel It’s English language tips pronunciation tips. now we started this theme where I talk about weird things Americans do. and this has been performing pretty well. and Silicon valley girl is mostly business and productivity. So they’re very different.

00:09:02 Chikodi:

The productivity one.

We could talk about that, but I’m really curious about this talk like an American, you know, where’s this, because I was watching some of those videos. It’s like this bag is a rip off, you know, or

00:09:15 Marina:

Yeah, yeah. That video binge-watching got over a million views in a day. That’s crazy. Like I’ve never had this before and it just happened a couple of days ago.

00:09:25 Chikodi:

Yeah. I mean, And you yourself are an immigrant to the United States, so it’s like, it’s, it’s kind of interesting, your journey to understanding what it means to speak like a, like a native, you

00:09:37 Marina:

Yeah. And especially, and all of those cultural things for Americans, like you don’t notice it, but as a, as a foreigner with a different perspective on what. This wouldn’t work in Russia. This wouldn’t work where I come from. So it’s just interesting to notice those things and people like, oh, really? Do we do that?

Oh my God. Seriously. So this is, this is kind of cool.

00:09:59 Chikodi:

And so in, was it November or December? There’s a major announcement that Slow Ventures was making an investment into you directly Yeah. as a creator. And that was the first time that’s ever happened. Talk to us about.

00:10:16 Marina:

Oh, that’s like, I’ve been talking to my friends. So we have these common friends with Sam. Lessin We have common friends, the guys at Lieberman’s, they were CPOs at Snapchat. They’re also from Russia and they are incredible in a way that they always talk about changing the world. we’ve been talking about investing in people for years before that.

But There was no instrument to do that. we were just talking and then they were like, oh, we have this friend who is interested in doing that. And his name is Sam. You should meet him. we just started talking I always wanted to be a part of innovation. This is, why I live in Silicon valley. I just wanted to try all the new things that come up. I thought, you know, this Silicon valley mindset and investing, when you give freedom to a startup or a person that you invest in, you’re this passive onlooker who. is there to help financially and may make some intros.

I thought this is really appealing because as a creator, first of all, you’re like, if you perform well in a certain month, then you’re generating enough cash. If you didn’t perform well, how do you pay your team? And so this mindset, when you’re in this mindset, you have very, very. you don’t spend a lot of money.

You don’t do, you know, invest a lot in people like hiring expensive producers or whatever. You’re super lean having cash in the bank. Like even if I don’t use it, the mindset is completely different. oh, if my videos don’t perform well, or if this experiment doesn’t go well, I have this money to pay my team for the next couple of months.

So. This mindset then being part of this innovation, Sam is an amazing investor. He’s super helpful and, you know, just having him and also Lieberman’s, are an angel investor and Sriram Krishnan who’s, who’s the host of,

00:12:14 Chikodi:

Good time show. Right.

00:12:16 Marina:

They have a show on clubhouse. yeah just having those people on the tee, like on board, as a creator, it’s super lonely.

You just chat/share to your camera all the time. You have a team, but they’re remote. So it’s, it’s. You don’t have co-founders. but then, having investors, is just this completely different dynamic, you’re like, oh, I have people who are actually interested in me succeeding. So it’s a lot about mindset, I think, with this deal.

00:12:42 Chikodi:

Yeah. how much can we talk about this deal? Because I’m sure people are super curious.

00:12:49 Marina:

Yep. We can, yeah, we can talk about it as much as.

00:12:53 Chikodi:

Oh, so, okay. So first question, how long did it take to negotiate that deal to be the first direct-invested creator

00:13:00 Marina:

Yeah, six months.

00:13:01 Chikodi:

Six months.

Okay. what kind of reservations did you have about getting a direct investment as a creator

00:13:08 Marina:

It was, important to be very clear. What’s my creator career. And what is my other career? Like what is in the deal? And what’s not in the deal, for example, Equity and LinguaTrip is not part of the deal because I was doing it anyway. so it This took a while. then also there are some, some things like what if I invest in a startup, get their shares and never sell them.

How do investors take like, because it’s 5% they get 5% of my income. how does it work? So there, there There were a lot of technicalities we had to figure out and they kept coming. when my CPA certified public accountant joined the conversations, she was like, we can’t do this deal because Marina would end up paying 3% more tax every year.

We’re like, okay, let’s start over again. So it’s just a lot of, and then, you know, Just just having all the small questions pop up then, because it’s a 30-year deal, it’s really hard to predict. So it’s a lot, a lot of it is based on trust that I won’t be thinking of schemes to not paying my investors.

So it does. And I like it that it’s like it’s Silicon valley style. if I did this deal in New York, I think it would, have taken a lot longer. Because it’s a different mindset, they want to calculate everything. Sam was like, okay, it’s a 30-year deal. We don’t know what’s going to happen.

We are going to write things down that we can think about now, but we won’t be able to think about everything. yeah, that was, that was kind of, yeah, it took a while. I thought when we started chatting, I think it was a March. Then In April, we were like, oh, we’re almost almost done with this, but then things kept coming over.

So we only signed in November, I think.

00:15:03 Chikodi:

Okay. So

You got what? $3.5M for.

00:15:06 Marina:

No $1.7M

00:15:07 Chikodi:

Okay. $1.7M for in a lump sum, you got $1.7 million in a lump sum for 5% of your creator earnings for the next 30 years. what constitutes creator. earnings

00:15:23 Marina:

Google AdSense, revenue that I get from YouTube. anything, I launch as a creator. if I launch a course or if I launch a company as a creator, if I invest as a creator, if I invest as a person that doesn’t count, if I just buy stocks or whatever, but if a company takes me as an angel, because I’m a creator, then that’s a part of the. deal Yeah, that does basically like the main ones with

00:15:51 Chikodi:

That’s really fascinating though, that you are a CPA, obviously it needs to be part of this conversation. So did they, you know, was the vehicle that, you know, they wrote a check directly to Marina Mogilko, co or did you set up a company and then,

00:16:06 Marina:

Yeah, we set up an LLC. Yeah. If they wrote a check directly to Marina, Magilla like 55% of what it will be gone right away to, to the IRS in California state. So now it’s an LLC and then LLC is, like this holding company and I operate out of my S-corp.

00:16:21 Chikodi:

Okay, so it’s a hundred percent owned by the S-corp, but then the, or is it a

00:16:28 Marina:

No, nobody. So companies don’t own each other is just LLC, is, is the holding company for the money. And I can do whatever I want. but for me, it’s financially, like from the tax perspective, it’s better for me to transfer money to the S-corp first and then pay my contractors or whatever I want.

Or if I invest, I would just invest directly from, from the LLC.

00:16:53 Chikodi:

Yeah. Okay. And then how did you come up with the figure of one point, a $1.7 million.

00:16:59 Marina:

We just took whatever was making now. And we created, like, I created different scenarios where the first scenario, what if I start. Creating content and decide that I want to be a scientist or whatever, and quit the career. What’s the probability of that. And what would be the cashflow like then what if I continue growing?

Like I’m growing right now? What’s the probability of that? And another scenario is, oh, what if something major happens? I get a Netflix deal. I get a book deal, everything explodes. And I’m like the superstar. What’s the probability of that. And what’s the cashflow. And then we basically discounted cash flows.

Multiplied by probabilities and came up with a number.

00:17:38 Chikodi:

So were you studying math in university? Okay. So you had the right mindset exactly. For this. it’s a critical performer here and that’s really special. and so, how are your investors? You said three I’m Christian he’s at Andrews, Henry, and Sam Lessin. He sold the company to Facebook actually long ago.

I think about 11 or 12 years ago. I interviewed him prior to the Facebook acquisition for a freelance post for venture. So it’s like very small, small world.

00:18:16 Marina:

World.

00:18:18 Chikodi:

How are they helping you? I just have the sense that there’s a halo effect because being the first to do something, people are going to be like, Hey, I want to work with Marina just because this is new and noteworthy.

So how are they? it’s still kind of new today’s, It’s still the first week of January that we’re recording this. So this is only a, two, two months or so since the deal was announced, but how are they helping you today

00:18:43 Marina:

It’s really important to mention that for them, it’s also an investment. It’s not like they’re my talent management agency who would actually manage me and come up with the deals. But in terms of intros, Sriram Krishnan has been really helpful. Sam Lessin has been really helpful.

If I asked that, or for example, Sam thought I needed to meet this and that person. So he connected us Sriram did the same. He was like, I think you need to pursue. Being represented by a talent management agency. So he introduced me to those guys. but yeah, for now, I’m just talking to them and getting into their mindset of being more entrepreneurial with my creator career.

This is also really helpful because they have a different perspective and it’s, good to have this outside perspective. but it’s not. like We have weekly calls and they’re like, Marina, you should do this, this and that. They’re pretty much hands-off which I also like, because as a creator, you need to be in control of your content and what you do. because you have this connection with. your audience

00:19:47 Chikodi:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I saw on your Instagram and some other things that you’re doing like digital fashion was that before

00:19:56 Marina:

Before. Yeah, dairy is my friend. Yeah. She started a company called dress sex. Yeah, and I invested in six more startups as well. So I’m just, you know, passionate about, about the creator economy. And I really like that this change is happening. People actually recognizing that YouTube and consecration is a thing because three years ago, especially in Silicon valley, like people would ask me what I’m doing and I’d be like, oh, I’m doing this company.

And I’m also YouTube. Or, and they’d be like, oh, my daughter is also wants to be YouTube or she’s doing the slime thing.

00:20:31 Chikodi:

Yeah.

00:20:32 Marina:

Doing something similar, not exactly slimes with,

00:20:37 Chikodi:

Well, speaking of slime, you know, I did actually talk to a rep for, likeness.

00:20:43 Marina:

Oh,

00:20:44 Chikodi:

A YouTuber with 200 million subscribers.

00:20:47 Marina:

Is this guy from the ULA? Right? The, the media company. What was his name?

00:20:53 Chikodi:

Yeah, I think, I think so.

00:20:54 Marina:

Him at with summit in September.

00:20:57 Chikodi:

Okay. Okay. Sorry. Sorry for folks. If this is inside baseball, but it’s, you know,

00:21:02 Marina:

I don’t know. I think it’s open. I

00:21:03 Chikodi:

Yeah.

00:21:04 Marina:

Them like a couple of days ago and he was elicit as a representative, so,

00:21:09 Chikodi:

Yeah. I mean, I’m just more saying that like for people that are like, what are they talking about? You know, so anyway, there’s a, there’s a, probably about nine, eight or nine now. And her name is Ann Estia and she is also Russian immigrant. She lives in south Florida with her family, and it’s basically the cheapest babysitter in the world because she and her dad.

And sometimes other kids in the area, they like do these videos where they’re just playing with toys and doing, you know, kids scenarios, imagination play for a long time, but they’ve accumulated 200 million subscribers. And she’s the number one most subscribed person on YouTube

00:21:48 Marina:

And most viewed there is this newsletter that sends out like every week. What are the most viewed channels? She’s always top 10.

00:21:56 Chikodi:

Yeah, it’s really, really, amazing what, what you can do with an audience. And so, without divulging too much of the specifics they were doing, branded food deals with major retailers because she has such an in-built audience. And then there’s, you know, there’s Mr. Beast and others doing the virtual dining concepts where, you know, you can get the Mr.

Beast burger. In hundreds of cities across the U S because there’s a company called virtual dining concepts and they set up ghost kitchens and the, Mariah Carey has cookies. I think it’s Wiz Khalifa. He has, chicken fingers. Mr. Beast has the Mr. Beast burger, but basically there’s, you know, it might be nine restaurants in one building, but if you order through the app, then you get the Mr. Beast burger and it gets delivered on, Uber eats or something.

00:22:48 Marina:

And that is

00:22:48 Chikodi:

So Nastia could do that. I think they were talking about like, doing like macaroni or like fruit platters or something like that.

00:22:56 Marina:

And I think they’re also doing something with Gary V I saw on the news that they were talking about. So like an NFT kind of project.

It’s crazy. Yeah.

00:23:06 Chikodi:

So you are also an

00:23:07 Marina:

I’m just getting there. Like, I am hopeful that someday we’ll be able to launch like a physical cause, you know, physical product. It is really important to have an audience that is, you know, I think my audience right now, if I do something in Russia that would totally work.

Or if I do something maybe like in LA, that will work. But otherwise my audience. Everywhere. So, and I was talking to YouTube about that. Cause I’m getting most recognized at the airports because they travel and they were like, from all over the place, I was like, let’s do a banner at the yolk for something.

Cause this is where they are. It’s really hard when like

00:23:46 Chikodi:

Even with a mask on, they recognize with your part.

00:23:49 Marina:

Oh yeah, yeah. This is crazy because they recognize Emily.

00:23:53 Chikodi:

Okay.

00:23:54 Marina:

Oh Emily. Oh, hi Marina. Yeah.

00:23:58 Chikodi:

Wow. That’s amazing. So, earlier in the week I spoke with, Ramon, Assam, Mon on the beat. I don’t know if you have seen him on Instagram or TikTok, but he and his, keyboard as they produce beats live and the do live streams on TikTok. And they get anywhere from like 6 million. I mean, the lowest view count is about 10,000, but they get about up to 6 million views per, per video.

And, he has just incredible fashion sense. So he was talking about how they’re going to actually start, releasing their own hats

00:24:34 Marina:

Wow.

00:24:34 Chikodi:

Apparel because people recognize him for his, his hat.

00:24:38 Marina:

That’s amazing. I just started working with a stylist, something again, that my deal has allowed me to. Pursuit, like become more confident in hiring people because I thought, you know, what about I, sorry, I am not like wearing my stylist curated outfits right now, but she

00:24:55 Chikodi:

Apologize to me. Apologize to stylist.

00:24:57 Marina:

Sorry guys. So yeah, she’s working with amazing people.

Like Natalia went down Emma and, I was like Alexa Chung, like with all the major, magazines. And I think it’s just another. Like, this is the part of your brand. Because before that, I was like, I was just wearing a little lemon all the time, but now I’m like, let’s add some color. Let’s let some textiles.

So, yeah, it’s pretty cool. I think we will do some fashion line with dress X because. digital it’s a lot easier again from my audience was all over the world. it will be easier to, to do something like, that.

00:25:32 Chikodi:

And so you’re saying like working with a stylist is one of these, a side effects of having the money upfront is that you can, like now say this is investment.

00:25:40 Marina:

Yeah. It’s different mindset. You’re not all about productivity and like making more cash because. Support your team. You’re more about like, oh, this is art. I want this to be perfect from every single aspect. I want to work with a stylist. I want to work with a producer who has experience working with Netflix shows.

I want to make deeper interviews. So I want to have a researcher who helps me with that. So it’s like, there is this just completely different thinking about the content I produce.

00:26:13 Chikodi:

So you’re not in maintenance mode as much, or like, Hey, let’s create a legacy.

00:26:17 Marina:

Yeah, exactly. It’s you know, when it’s like a startup, when you raised your serious seed and you’re like, oh, now I can focus on the product instead of just pitching and pivoting and trying to figure out how to make money ACEP. It’s just, okay. Now I have time to actually sit down with myself and think where I’m going with this and how do I get.

To the next step, because when you’re just on this hamster wheel of producing content, you stay on the same level as you’re growing things to the algorithm. But in order to have a hockey stick growth as a creator, you need to come up with new formats. You need to come up with something that’s different from what you’ve been doing, and you can do it.

If you are on this treadmill of just doing whatever you’re using.

00:27:00 Chikodi:

I mean, speaking again of Mr. Beast, he spends millions of dollars per video now.

00:27:05 Marina:

3 million on the squad game, a squid squid game. Sorry, I didn’t watch. I started watching it and I’m like,

00:27:13 Chikodi:

Yeah, it’s crazy. Cause I don’t watch any of his stuff, but I’m aware of him as a really prolific creator. Yeah.

00:27:20 Marina:

Here.

00:27:21 Chikodi:

And it’s just amazing. Cause you can have, so, maybe I’ll have my brother on the show at some point, but he has a, about a million and a half YouTube subscribers, which is, which is not small.

00:27:33 Marina:

Yeah, that’s huge.

00:27:35 Chikodi:

It’s, it’s animation and, it’s inspired by a game called, five nights at Freddy’s, which again, I don’t know anything about, but there are a world of people that watch every video he makes. So, so that’s the world we live in. And so, you know, as a creator to have that audience and, you know, it’s like 6 million for one channel.

So across all your channels, subscribers, do you have just on YouTube?

00:28:01 Marina:

A little over 7 million, I would say.

00:28:04 Chikodi:

Okay. So then, lingual Maria is related to

00:28:07 Marina:

Yeah. Yeah, but again, it’s like, I think the subscriber count is just this vanity metric because there are different types of subscribers like that channel. Every video is kind of on-point so they come, they watch a video, they might watch three or four more. Some of them connect with me as a person. But what I feel is that most of yours are there because they want to get information about this particular subject or they just entertained with the way I talk about Americans.

So they’re like, okay, that was fun. But Verizon was Silicon valley girl. They’re like Marina, you are. So motivational, I’m also a female entrepreneur who just starting out and it’s so motivating just to watch your logs and see how you show your life and show your days and entrepreneur. And they are there for every video.

So this is just this different type of connection. And I think it is really important to focus at numbers, a great, and, they give you this exposure, but I care a lot more about. People who really connect with me as a person, because then I realized I can give a lot more value.

And it’s not just this information resource.

I’m also like this inspiration resource, like a friend kind of,

00:29:17 Chikodi:

And then as your CPM, much higher for the, Silicon valley girl, because it’s more business content and the

00:29:24 Marina:

Yeah.

00:29:24 Chikodi:

Are.

00:29:25 Marina:

Yeah, it is, it is higher. Depends on the video for some videos. My CPA will be like $70 per thousand views where you’re talking about business. Of course, some videos or like blogs, they tend to get lower CPMs, but yeah, it tends to be higher.

00:29:39 Chikodi:

Okay. I hope you get to the 70, $70 CPM for, the 6 million subscriber channel.

00:29:46 Marina:

Yeah. That would have been crazy.

00:29:49 Chikodi:

Yeah. So I was watching, Andre, give his kind of year end recap of his different, revenue channels. and it was, you know,

00:29:59 Marina:

I still have to wash him. We chatted a couple months ago and most of my revenue is coming from, well, not most of it, but a big chunk of it is coming from. And if you’re a financial blogger, you can advertise, we bull and Robin hood and they will just give you a free stocks. This is crazy. Yeah. I’ve experimented with that. Not that much money for me. Cause I’m not financial blogger, but still yeah, it is great. And yeah, he has, his success is amazing. And he’s been doing that for a couple of years and

00:30:28 Chikodi:

Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:28 Marina:

He’s grown like crazy DEMA actually attended his house warming party when he bought a house in Las Vegas.

00:30:34 Chikodi:

In Vegas. Yeah. Yeah. That is, yeah. That’s just so fascinating because you can have a much less popular channel by some metrics, but then when you say like, I’m talking about accounting and tax planning and people that watch my channel, they buy credit cards, they buy insurance, they buy whatever. That’s really valuable, so you can go deep and not wide.

But if you can go wide and deep, then you’re really. Yeah. So then, you have this audience, how are people engaging with you off of YouTube? You know?

Cause like you have, obviously I see the YouTube plaques behind you, so they’re supporting you, but one day they could just flip the switch on any YouTube. creator how are you engaging off the platform with the audience you’ve you’ve built.

00:31:25 Marina:

Yeah, I have Instagram over 800,000 people. I have TikTok 1.7 million. I have an email list. maybe a couple hundred thousand across all the different re I don’t know how many people we have at LinguaTrip probably a lot more. so LinguaTrip has its own email list. And of course I advertise LinguaTrip, promote LinguaTrip in my videos, Instagram TikTok, there is a platform called Bilibili which is a Chinese YouTube platform.

I have over a hundred thousand subscribers there as well. We just started Facebook. So we’re going to upload a lot more content there. what else? I have like also a couple of written blogs, but they’re not too big, a Substack yeah, with my team. We we’re trying to be everywhere.

We try to repurpose every piece of content that we can repurpose.

00:32:18 Chikodi:

And then, so in terms of like, create creator commerce, you know, what plans do you have? Cause you’re talking about courses, you’re doing, you invested in vibe capital with, on nug Paul, right? And he’s the CEO of teachable.

00:32:33 Marina:

Yep. I also invest in his co-founder who co-founded teachable with him. They’re building like banking for creators.

00:32:39 Chikodi:

Oh, that’s great. That’s great. I imagine that part of this, this fund funding that you got from, from Sam and, Shriram Chris. is going towards more monetization of audience off of Instagram, TikTok, Billy, Billy YouTube.

What kind of opportunities are you looking at in terms of, how to take this several hundred thousand people on email, et cetera, and engage with them, in different ways.

00:33:08 Marina:

Yeah. So I still, I have my courses. So I have a course, a YouTube course, a short video course. We’re launching together with teachable. We’re launching a YouTube management. So it’s basically a course where people who want to manage other people’s channels, help them research come up with topics, thumbnails, et cetera, do some editing, maybe.

So we’re launching that in February, but my main goal with all of this is actually working with a production company or doing something with Netflix. I think that will be the goal, creating a show of this immigrant girl in the U.S noting different cultural, basically what I’m doing with my channel, but on a higher, higher level. and having other, permanent immigrants, on the show. this, would be the ultimate. goal

00:33:53 Chikodi:

Yeah. what is the process like of going from a very popular YouTube channel to Netflix, which is that next. step

00:34:00 Marina:

I Still have to figure out bro, but I believe the first. Hopefully like, well, in my understanding, the first step is getting represented by an agency hence all the connections.

So this is what I’m working on right now. I’m Just chatting to different agencies and figuring out how’s this going to work.

00:34:15 Chikodi:

What would that mean to you in terms of being, picked up by Netflix? Because everybody, you know, it’s like, they all want to be in Hollywood and they might make more money off of a YouTube channel, but they still want to get a book deal or they want to be on the screen. So what does that mean to, you

00:34:31 Marina:

Yeah, it’s just a completely different, level of exposure to a new audience. even with YouTube people, Are more likely to click on a video where they see a familiar face.

So, and this, you being recognized is super important for YouTube and for any social media platform. once you’re on Netflix, you get recognized instantly. even apart from that, for me, the number one thing is working with talented people.

00:35:01 Chikodi:

Right,

00:35:02 Marina:

When you’re working with a Netflix production team, it’s this whole new level. And I’m, I’m unable right now to create a team like that. Not because even though, because of the financial component of that, I, I don’t know how to hire those types of people.

Why would they work for me?

00:35:20 Chikodi:

Yeah. If you’re working from home, you’re not getting to hang out with them you know, do yoga classes and what have you. So you don’t have the proximity.

00:35:28 Marina:

Yeah. And for me, the, the most important, like, and the best, like all of my goals for 2022 are about people. I want to work with as many creative, talented people as, many as possible. so being able to work with them to see how they start through the process, how they think about things that’s. priceless

00:35:49 Chikodi:

Wow. Now that’s a really, that’s a great point. not only is there the prestige of getting a product or a project picked up by a Netflix or a major studio? It’s the fact that the studio has the talent pipeline that you don’t. get Elsewhere and getting to work with those people and really focus on the creative process is something that, we live in a distributed world, you have a, you have a distributed team. and audience is distributed, but then that concentration of talent that a studio can get is something that is really rare and special. So thank you for pointing out. okay. So then the, the goal for 2022 is all about people and, making these big jumps.

So, I have so many questions around what that looks like. And then the, you know, it’s like, I’m, I’m sure you’re thinking about 20, 23 as well.

00:36:49 Marina:

Yeah. So just to give you a couple of examples, I just hired, like had a contractor in LA. I found this, person who’s working. Bigger production teams. She charged us something like $2,000 per video for like script and actually producing it. Like she helps you find guests. She helps you with questions.

She can help you with finding editors. And I paid for two videos and I just want to say. What does it look like? And I’ve looked at a couple of projects you worked with and they’re next level. Absolutely.

So we’ll see how this is going to be helpful. Also, even like working with a therapist who understands YouTube because, and it’s not like I have problems or whatever that I’m depressed.

It’s just having this audacity to go on the next level, you know, and tell people like, oh, I can actually, you know, I would love to interview my mark Zuckerberg, but the problem is not really, I could try and, you know, find ways to get him on the interview. Cause he’s doing interviews with YouTube. I don’t have a deputy yet.

I’m like what? Well, what will people think about me interviewing mark? Like I am, I haven’t built a big business yet. I’m just doing stuff you say, and this is also what I want to work on with my therapist. Like, and I see people who get hate on YouTube, but they actually like, oh, this is all planned. This is how new people find out about me.

It is fun. Like I want to be that person I can like when people say. Telling me something like, oh, why do your interview’s awful? This person is so amazing, but you couldn’t ask the right questions. I’m like, oh yes. I’m not a journalist. I w I will not do this any time. So like, I want to get out of.

00:38:33 Chikodi:

Man. That’s So fascinating though. So you have a therapist, you work with a therapist

00:38:37 Marina:

I’m looking for a therapist yet. I’m, I’m just working with different people because not everybody understands that kind of thing, like how to work with it. But I found someone who works with like public people. So it’s just, there is so many things that I have to take the next level in order to reach that next level in terms of like, you know, even my mindset.

00:39:00 Chikodi:

Well, let me ask how would a therapist or coach help you with your mindset to perform better as a YouTube brand?

00:39:07 Marina:

I think my main problem is that I overreact to people’s calls. Like they would be in my head for days. If somebody tells me like, oh, you’re interviewed this person, but I just watched another interview. And it was so much better because you couldn’t like ask the right questions or something. Or, you know, when I made this video about San Francisco people, like, I’m so glad you’re out because your techies are ruining the city.

You’re like, you are the reason why the city is suffering and he’ll be like, oh really? And like, instead of just thinking. You know, they have their own perspective and, you know, I appreciate that they’re commenting, but this has nothing to do with me. I will be like, oh, really? Is, is that, is that the reason did I ruin this, the city?

Like, I want to get out of this mindset. This is, I think this is my main problem that I take everything too seriously. yeah. And this would definitely like once, once I’m out of that, I think I would be able to be more audacious about things.

00:40:07 Chikodi:

Yeah.

00:40:07 Marina:

Then when you do something radical, something new, I’ll be like, okay, 50% of the comments might not be what I expected, but I’m fine with it.

This is part of the plan. I wonder, I want to have This mindset.

00:40:19 Chikodi:

What kind of conversations do you have with other YouTubers and other creators about mental health?

00:40:25 Marina:

We talk a lot about reaction to hate and like in general, there is this, attitude to what, like, if you’re, if you’re launching a course, because there are a lot of low quality products on the market. People be hating you for that like, oh, easy money for you. The, qualities, they, they wouldn’t even take the course, but they would hate you for having this product.

So that like in general, and then being dependent on the numbers, like if this video didn’t perform, then you don’t feel well for the day. And you’re like, oh, There is, there are two strategies on YouTube where you create videos in order to satisfy the algorithm. So it starts promoting you and there is a strategy where you make videos just because you think they’re great.

And they, these are two different strategies. Like for Silicon valley girl, if I want to reach 1 million followers, all I have to do is produce top 15 ideas for businesses and crypto, top 15 companies to whatever, like they will take off and they were taking off all the time. Like if I produce a. to profitable businesses video.

They will be on the front page of Google. If you look for profitable business ideas. So it’s working, but it’s not necessarily a type of video that I want to create. I want to talk about different things, but they don’t before. So it’s in a, this is also a lot of things, a problem that a lot of YouTubers are struggling with.

Like you either sacrifice your view. Or you sacrifice your interests.

00:41:58 Chikodi:

And so finding that right balance of your integrity, right? It’s like, I want to be a, creator. I don’t just want to be a algorithm slave or, you know, algorithm fodder.

00:42:10 Marina:

Exactly. Yeah.

00:42:11 Chikodi:

And so then how do you and your fellow creators support each other in that kind of journey?

00:42:18 Marina:

I think. this feeling that you’re not alone with this problem, everybody has this problem. This alone makes things a lot easier. When we chat about that, they’re like, oh, completely the same problem. Or even like, I chatted to a, another YouTube a couple of days ago. It’s just like, you know, I want to have more free time.

So I decided to start posting once in two weeks and nothing changed. And I’m like, again, my. My view was that you have to producing every single week and you can stop because otherwise the algorithm will start promoting you. And she’s like, you know, I’ve been doing this for half a year. I’m focusing on my family.

It’s fine. You’re like, maybe I don’t have to be in this constant, you know, oh my God, I need to produce a video this week. Even if I’m sick, even if I want a holiday, even if I haven’t dressed that, or my baby didn’t sleep this night, I have to produce it. So it’s just different. This different perspective helps a lot.

00:43:12 Chikodi:

That’s that’s. Yeah, that’s crazy. Cause like when I was a journal, And when I was blogging more, I felt like I really do need to be producing. And just wanting to publish, kind of robbed me of the joy of the writing process. Cause it was writing to publish, not just writing for the, the, the joy and the experience of it.

So it definitely, that’s pretty, that’s cool that you have colleagues and peers who can tell you that. Yeah, they’ve taken a big step back and it still hasn’t, impacted, their traffic in their view.

00:43:46 Marina:

Yeah,

00:43:46 Chikodi:

So it’s like, yeah, you get to be a whole person.

Wow. Okay. And then, were talking earlier about how your mission for 2022 is about people You’re looking for a coach or a therapist who understands the mindset of YouTube creators and public personas. what other support are you looking for in 2022?

00:44:09 Marina:

So couple of producers, like somebody who would help me come up with, with topics and, navigating. Like people who I can invite to be a part of my channel. Yeah. Actually I have, I was just working on my goals. I have this, this book, they say you need to have a new like book for, for every year for the goals.

I can just look at like, whatever, oh, work with a financial consultants. Cause I’ve been in investing like, oh, let’s invest in crypto at all is a mess in this startup. I would really want to have a structure, working with, with a stylist. yeah, getting signed by an agency. This is, this is something and we’ll say, oh, I’m working with a PR person.

Cause we’re trying to get me on three magazine covers this year because I’ve been on two last year and it’s again. People recognizing you it’s been amazing. Like people tagging me on stories. They’ve seen me at this airport or on the airplane, like on the cover of the magazine. So I want to do more of that.

Like just doing big events with, I’ve done two events last year with like a, not 1,500 people. So I wanna do like a 5,000 people event. So those, and last year I started finally, like before we did. A couple of 1000 people events. And I thought I need to be in charge of everything. and last year I just hired a person who’s done that before.

And it was so easy, I just had to show up. So, and I just realized like how important it is to have people who understand what their.

00:45:40 Chikodi:

That’s great. I mean, it goes back to what you said, though, about being able to invest in people and take some risks. You know, having, having in the absolute, you know, compared to one and a half million dollars, paying someone $4,000 to produce two high. Episodes with you is not a lot, but on, on the basis of what those videos might make an ad revenue, that’s significant.

00:46:07 Marina:

Or even again, like understanding how creative process works, what it takes to produce this high quality video. what is this structure of the script that gets people engaged from the first eight seconds? Like there are so many details that you learn from when you’re working with those types of people.

00:46:25 Chikodi:

Yeah. I mean, Marcus Brownlee, would be someone that would be really fascinating to talk to because sometimes he interviews himself in a Tesla, you know, and he like puts on a fake mustache, but it’s like, he just understands the storytelling format so well, but that didn’t happen overnight. You know, either he invested in himself over the years to get to that level of comfort or he has someone he works with or both,

00:46:50 Marina:

I need to watch this video that you mentioned.

00:46:53 Chikodi:

Oh, yeah, he was, I think he was actually interviewing himself about what it meant to be a YouTuber.

And so it was pretending to be an Uber driver and he’s saying, oh, I’m going to the airport. I’m, you know, I reviewed, gadgets for a living and, you know, pretending to be like a 50 year old guy. Who’s just like really what, tell me about that.

Yeah. So you were a startup co-founder before getting into YouTube. So you already had the entrepreneur mentality, but then like how do you see your channels as businesses?

00:47:27 Marina:

They’re definitely top of the funnel right now, because most of my revenue is coming from, the products that I do, like courses and partnerships. Again, talking to Andrei torque, talking to grim Stephan. I also want to be, in a position where Google assets revenue makes what like 50% of my income, because it’s kind of passive.

You do what you like, your produced content and you get paid for it. So you don’t have to constantly hustle to launch a course, constantly hustle to secure a brand deal. this is also something that’s in the list of my goals, for the next.

00:48:02 Chikodi:

Yeah. The long tail searches are, like you said, it’s, it’s not passive in so much as you have to create the videos, but once you’ve created the video, it’s an.

00:48:11 Marina:

Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.

00:48:13 Chikodi:

You really have to watch the under cheek. year-end recap, because he shows the price of Bitcoin and where his, YouTube ad revenue was for the month.

And it’s almost a one-to-one correlation.

Yeah.

00:48:25 Marina:

Because he, he talks about a bit going, but yeah, it’s, it’s great.

00:48:28 Chikodi:

Yeah, but he’s not even a crypto. I mean, he’s, he’s a crypto, but he’s not a crypto founder. And then he’s an investor and personal finance guy. So it’s really, really fascinating. But then that just makes me think it’s like, things are so cyclical. so we had a Rebecca Zong on the show and that episode aired recently, and she talks about Narcissus.

And how to deal with narcissists and toxic people in your life. And that is not cyclical because if anything, it’s only going to increase because, you know, we have an epidemic of narcissism in our world, so that’s just another, you know, but her traffic is all organic and she has, I think she has 3 million channel subscribers.

So. So there’s that fine balance of trends like Bitcoin prices versus just like mental health and, you know, toxic people.

00:49:22 Marina:

Exactly. Yeah.

00:49:23 Chikodi:

So any final thoughts? I mean, we we’ve covered a lot of ground and I know you have, three channels and two kids, to, to attend to.

00:49:32 Marina:

Yeah, final thoughts. I mean, if people are interested in raising money as a creator, I think it is worth exploring because I know like if you’re a creator who never hired or who like, you know, leading this lonely journey and you’re thinking like, maybe it’s not, for me, it’s just like talking to. to investors, you know, again, for me, it’s, it’s more about mindset, more about having partners in the business being part of something very new.

And, my belief is that in 10 years we would all be able to invest in our favorite people hold their tokens. So whatever it means, it’s just, you know, I think it’s, it’s just this completely different a world where you can find. an entrepreneur who is 19 years old, who doesn’t have a lot of money, but then you know, that probably his first two startups or first their challenges or whatever are going to fail just because he’s just starting up.

But he’s third startup is definitely going to work and you don’t have to chase him with every startup. You just invest in him, which gives him, power and resources to, to experiment with things.

00:50:42 Chikodi:

Yeah. what do you think the future of direct investment to creators?

00:50:47 Marina:

I think we’re going to have NASDAQ for four people. I think we’re gonna, we’re gonna have tokens. We’re gonna like trade our future income for upfront cash. and we’re going to get rid of student loans. We’re going to get rid of bang close. We’re going to be able to fund talented people. At school, because for me, you know, I was lucky that my school had an exchange program with the UK because my parents would never be able to afford sending me abroad.

What if, you know, they funded all straight a students at school and gave them, you know, Thousands of dollars to get into this university or try this program because these things are life changing. If I hadn’t gone to the UK, when I was 14, my life would’ve been completely different. So these events are Gamechangers, like going into 500 startups.

This is a game changer. and so being able to provide more opportunities to people worldwide, changing their lives and giving them resources. You know, take part in programs and travel and explore. I think it’s great. We’re going to have a much better world when everyone can participate.

00:51:59 Chikodi:

Awesome. this has been a real pleasure. I’m so glad we got to catch up. I mean, it’s like we kind of just whizzed by each other in on-deck.

00:52:06 Marina:

Yeah. Yeah. Andrew is actually helping me with my new course. He’s a teachable.

00:52:11 Chikodi:

No Phantom.

00:52:12 Marina:

Yeah, so small world.

00:52:15 Chikodi:

This is a very small world. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I’m still, I’m not doing the, the talk anymore at 500, but I’m still, you know, dealing with 500 startups companies almost on it, actually multiple times a day.

00:52:30 Marina:

That’s amazing.

00:52:31 Chikodi:

Invested in a couple of myself,

00:52:33 Marina:

Nice, And you’re in San Francisco, right?

00:52:38 Chikodi:

Yep. Going to Vegas for New Year’s, but with Omicron, it’s just like

00:52:42 Marina:

Yeah.

Yeah. I wanted to go to the CS, but I lost a deal. When companies reach out, they wanted to send me to the CS, but they were

00:52:49 Chikodi:

Hm.

00:52:50 Marina:

Actually exploring a couple more creators. So, they were going to give us a decision later, and somebody else won the deal, but that would have been great.

00:52:58 Chikodi:

Yeah, that’ll do it. That’ll do it. Yeah. Well, let’s all mask up and take care of each other, so that these travels can happen again. Because it’s such an important part of life.

00:53:12 Marina:

Yeah, they are.

00:53:13 Chikodi:

All right. Well, Marina, thank you so much.

00:53:18 Marina:

Yes

00:53:20 Chikodi:

Yeah. Who are you looking to work with, and who would you like to reach out to in 2022?

00:53:28 Marina:

Yeah. Everyone that I mentioned, people who are professional producers, who work with professional production teams, those types of people who can help bring my content to the next level.

00:53:40 Chikodi:

Awesome. Awesome. All right, well, happy New Year and thank you again.

00:53:45 Marina:

Happy New Year, yeah. Thank you so much.

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